Idris upgrade lasted < 60 seconds :(

Wanted to pick it up, but there were 0 left before I even noticed it was up :frowning:

NM, I’m an idiot, need my tea. Picked one up, yay.

The Javelins sold out in under 10 seconds.
CIG made $300,000 in less than 10 seconds.


Yeah, it happens. There will be so many player-owned cap ships in SC. I see 2 possible options:

  1. Normal players will be upset at how annoying asshats are with cap ships because they’ll be everywhere
  2. Cap ship players will be upset at how ineffective/useless cap ships are compared to how awesome they wanted them to be.

I’m glad I own one but don’t care :stuck_out_tongue:

Important note about the insurance on the upgrade.

I’m confused. Don’t all Idris-P ships have LTI? If so, I don’t see the point of making the kit 72 month insurance. The use case escapes me. Are the unattached parts vulnerable to theft/destruction?

For that matter, why would I buy the kit and not apply all of the parts? I’m all for providing players options, but I’m thinking it would have been simpler to offer an Idris-P to Idris-K CCU instead.

Yeah, not sure. I would have enjoyed a CCU to the M, but yeah, they’re not offering that.

Some people want to use the beam gun from the kit only and not lose the other turret options.
So it is a mix and match set that you can apply as you choose.

I am not an Idris owner, never really wanted one, so it concerns me 0. But I have been keeping an eye on it, so I can stay informed and report back to all of you folks

Mac I think that some owners will be disappointed not because the ship is not as effective as they wanted it to be, but because it is not as effective without a crew.

It is going to be harder and harder to maintain a full crew of asshats in the verse. They are going to make it hard for a single anal headgear, think of what a mess it will be to organize more than 3 of them into a crew.

Yeah, I always expected a CCU to the M to appear, and the inevitable outcry from M owners. The beam weapon is an interesting compromise. I like it… and if people want to mix and match then more power to them.

My confusion is with the 72 month insurance (yeah I’m one of those LTI snobs, but we’ve had that discussion). Looking at other add-ons in my hangar…

  • Add-ons - Hartwell Music Sentinel 88G (no insurance)
  • Add-ons - Retaliator Dropship Module (LTI)
  • Add-ons - Retaliator Living Front Module (LTI)
  • Add-ons - Retaliator Living Rear Module (LTI)
  • Add-ons - Retaliator Cargo Front Module (LTI)
  • Add-ons - Retaliator Cargo Rear Module (LTI)
  • Endeavor Master Set (LTI - which presumably applies to all of the add-ons in the set)
  • Add-ons - Bio-Dome Pod (LTI)

Hmm, never noticed the Hartwell had no insurance. Perhaps I should raise that issue on spectrum (cringe).

When you add components to the ship from add on packs they inherit the insurance of the ship, according to CIG.

So, for instance, the Idris K pack will inherit the LTI of the Idris it is applied to because it is an add on pack. Similar to an Upgrade.

This does not work the same way when adding equipment to a ship in game, as we all have seen.

But if you have to apply the equipment from the website, then it inherits the ship’s insurance level.

Perhaps that’s part of the problem. We’re talking about functionality that hasn’t been implemented in the web site. The pack has no “apply upgrade” button like a CCU does. You’d have to do it at a component level, be able select the appropriate hard point, and make it reversible.

Here’s what I see currently:

The icons for the 8 items aren’t even there yet… which isn’t unusual for CIG.

They’ve been eluding to a ship customization interface. Perhaps it’ll dovetail with that.

Yeah, other than the devs screaming it out on Spectrum that the components will inherit the insurance, there has not been a very clear way to know what or how.

As you said, not unusual for CIG. They seem to suffer from left hand right hand syndrome.

No argument on asshats and crew. I was working with Cryptic on their forums when they were developing STO, many many years ago, and one of the topics that came up that they were originally planning was having PC bridge officers and multi-crew ships, much like ST Bridge Officer VR is now. The unilateral opinion was “why the **** would I want to sit in a chair on your ship while you captain when I can captain my own ship?!” I expect the same for most folks in SC as well. Even flying an Aurora is better than scrubbing toilets on some guys Idris, with no windows, no way to know what’s going on, just do what you’re told and flip that switch when we call for it.

That brings up another topic we have touched on in the past. How are they going to make multicrew fun for everyone.
If the current mining gameplay is any indication of how they plan to approach various elements of game play then I have lots of confidence in their ability to make every role in multicrew fun.

Time will tell.

IMHO (totally based on nothing), we need the following:
Good NPC AI such that using AI makes us “effective enough”. This fills in all of the gaps and brings us into the ME/FO/Skyrim types of play that a lot of us really like.
Agent Smithing. Without this, playing with each other is going to be extremely difficult.
Everything is omni-panels. Everyone can do 2-3 jobs from any position on the ship, so people can sit on the bridge and do all of the jobs that don’t require you physically standing there.

I remember when LOTRO launched, I played it for a few months. No XP from kills, only from quests, and only from the first time doing it. This resulted in lots of us being stuck with content that required a party to complete and having no help because no one wanted to do it again. There was absolutely no reason to do an instance or quest area a second time, so people moved on and never looked back. No rewards or encouragement for helping each other. They lost half of their population around the 3-4 month mark because we all had nothing but group-required quests in our logs and no way to do them. They eventually fixed it and some folks came back, but I’d never seen a game so group averse before.

I fear SC will end up that way, 2 million of us playing a single player game together. It’s hard for us to get together, it’s impossible for us to quickly help each other, and the only way for us to “group” is for me to sit in your ship, manning a scrub brush while you have all of the fun, just in case you need me. Or sitting in my fighter, staring at you in your Orion while you lase rocks. That’s the big issue with space games, someone is doing the bitch work because the developer feels it’s needed. “Don’t fly without an escort”.

Yeah that is kinda what I was referring to.
I would not judge multicrew by what is in the game now, that is going to change significantly. The question for me is how, in what ways. I know we will see combat slow down quite a bit, that is a given. And I know we will see ship components play important part in the overall combat scene. But does that mean that it will be like you describe? Will one player be stuck waiting for action before they can take part in anything meaningful? I don’t think that is the plan, not from CR’s view and not from the developers’ views. They all want each player to be an important and engaged part of play at all times.
I am just not sure HOW that will work. I am hoping it doesn’t mean that there will be constant combat at all times to keep everyone busy. I would prefer to see more. If I have someone plotting QT points for our course that should be a mini-game of its own so that a really good navigator knows how to get from A to B faster and safer than anyone else. Or a great engineer can save me fuel and time and wear on my ship. Or any of the features of play that are present in multicrew.

“Don’t Fly Without an Escort” is great, and I think it will force some players to work together. Even if it is just to hire some other players based on their reputation to come and escort a HULL class while it moves boxes from A to B.

Of course the other end of the spectrum is what you described. I could be sitting in the cargo bay staring out at QT streams going by until something happens that I get to take part in.

Lets hope for the former and not the latter.

There are so many logistical complications.

If I crew your ship, am I stuck there? I can’t “fast travel”, what if you get wife agro and log out, but didn’t give me rights to fly your ship? What happens to me? What if you’re flying “north” and all of my ships are “east”? How do I get back to my ships, hitch a ride with someone? Does that mean I’m days away from my own ships? What if I flake out on you, or I get wife agro and bail mid fight and you have unmanned turrets or engineering?

I hate forced grouping, it is the antithesis to what I’m looking for. If I’m forced to group to play the game, I don’t play it. I love games that encourage grouping, and reward it, but forcing it always chases me away. If I’m reaching for that icon on my desktop and pause to think “Man, I’ll log in, then sit in the LFG queue because I can’t do anything by myself, or be forced to sit around and wait for others to be ready because I can’t accomplish things on my own”, I’ll simply click on a different icon, one of the dozens of other games on my desktop. I enjoy grouping when I want to, but hate being forced to and punished if I’m not.

What’s the difference?
WoW rewards group play. I can play the entire game solo, none of the advancement content requires me to be grouped, I can go from 1 to cap without ever grouping, if I don’t want to.

Eve forces group play. If you don’t play in a group, you die. You can’t mine, manufacture, haul, or do any content in the game without being grouped or you will be ganked, eventually, no matter where you are. Playing solo is actively punished in Eve.

I think SC is shooting for the happy medium between the two examples you gave there.

There will be solo stuff to do in ships designed for solo play. But the multi-crew ships are exactly that, made for multiple crew members to work together. And sure, there will always be the NPC option, but we both know that will be a distant second to having a player crew.

Multi-crew play will require commitment. Like you described about someone leaving or having to get prepared, or whatever. Those are typical issues in any game with multiplayer. So there will still be agent smithing available for quick play. You can pop into one of the NPCs on my ship and run my shields for a while without taking your character away from your “home base” where your ships are all located. But for those who want to use their character for multi-crew play it will require a commitment.

In that way SC can provide single player options for everyone, multiplayer options for those who just want a quick session with friends, and dedicated multi-crew options for those who are willing to commit to that type of game play.

I disagree that NPC is a distant second to having a player crew, my feelings are the precise opposite. I would FAR prefer an NPC crew over a PC crew, for a variety of reasons I’ll explain.

In SC, multi-crew will require a commitment that far exceeds any other game ever created. Even in the most group-centric game imaginable, Eve Online, if we’re grouped and doing something, then it falls apart for some reason, I can clone hop to where my ships are instantly and continue playing however I want. I can be in a solo mining op, you call, I clone hop to the clone IN YOUR FLEET, grab a ship from your carrier or from the nearest station and make it happen, then clone hop back when it is done. Ships are disposable, like tissue paper, easily made, destroyed, and replaced.

In SC, I have to plan to be where your ship is, and once on your ship I’m stuck, there is nowhere else I can go, nothing else I can do. If we spend 2 hours heading out there and then it all falls apart, I’m stuck, 2 hours from my ships. If you log out, I have to log out, and I can’t log back in until you log back in because your ship is idle if you’re not on it. Committing to be on your ship, part of your Op, is a commitment of potentially several days of not flying my own ships, or longer if something happens. It’s a complete surrendering of my freedom. 10 of us join your crew, we fly 4 systems out to deep space to do an op, it goes south, the ship blows up, we rez at a hospital at a planet none of us have ships in, and we’re all hitching rides back with other folks, or swapping to alts to shuttle people back and forth, etc.

CIG has a huge undertaking ahead of them, trying to figure out how to balance all of this. I’ve no doubt they’ll find something, but I don’t envy them.

As to why I prefer NPCs to PCs…decades of “wait, one sec, bio, need a cigarette, wife agro, one sec, kids need me, phone, doorbell, pizza’s here, sorry dozed off…” etc. A 1 hour dungeon run has 2 hours of trying to manage people, and the more people to manage the worse it is. I’ve zero patience for that anymore, I’m too damn old. 5 years of tier 1 40-man raids in WoW burned it all out of me. I’ll take 50% effectiveness with NPCs that do what they are told, won’t flake, won’t bail, and will be there when I need them over 100% effectiveness of the randomness of other people.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy people on my own terms and absolutely will both run and be a part of ops, but they will be special occasions, and the bulk of my time will be spent alone, with NPCs, doing my own thing on my own time.